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| What's the value of a degree from the University of Phoenix? |
(More than 100 comments added; go here to read them and be sure to read the companion blog post and comments about Saturday Night Live's "University of Westfield" ad) There's a very serious critique of the University of Phoenix in today's New York Times. This for-profit, continuing-education institution -- which offers in-class programs as well as online degrees -- has been providing substandard education, according to many students quoted in the article.
The most telling statement, however, comes from the head of the accreditation agency responsible for business degrees:
Although Phoenix is regionally accredited, it lacks approval from the most prestigious accrediting agency for business schools, the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business.In many ways, it's a typical story -- a large corporation putting financial goals ahead of product quality and the needs of its customers. But in this case, the nature of the products (education and degrees) and the customers (students) makes this story especially sad. This isn't about deceptive promotions for cellphone service or poorly made widgets. This is about people who are seeking knowledge or a boost for their career. It sounds like a lot of students have wasted time, money and hope on University of Phoenix programs. For those who have already graduated, reports like this devalue the University of Phoenix, and its degrees.
John J. Fernandes, the association’s president, said the university had never applied. “They’re smart enough to understand their chances of approval would be low,” Mr. Fernandes said. “They have a lot of come-and-go faculty. We like institutions where the faculty is stable and can ensure that students are being educated by somebody who knows what they’re doing.”
I'd be curious to hear from people who have taken online or in-class lessons from the University of Phoenix, or those who actually have UoP degrees and can give a University of Phoenix review. What do you think of this article? Can the trust of students and the University of Phoenix's reputation be rebuilt?
Sample comment about the University of Phoenix
Someone posted the following comment in May, 2017: In the 10 years since this post has been published, I have seen more and more comments like this one:I also have an accounting degree from UOP. I could not get a job in accounting if I agreed to work for free. It was a huge mistake and waste of time. I am 42 years old and still going to school but I definitely learned a big life lesson. I am skeptical of any online education not because it is poor education but it is perceived by employers to be worthless. Since they are the ones that decide if you get a opportunity or not, it is worthless.If your looking for personal enrichment or don't have anything better to do than spending hours studying it is a waste of time. I am not really upset about the money or lack of job opportunities but I am upset that I will never get back those hundreds of hours that I could have been spending with my husband and children. I hope anyone that is currently attended will reconsider their decision. There are other options, UOP is a running joke. I am embarrassed to tell people that I have a degree from this institution.In 2007, employers may not have heard of UoP, or assumed it was a non-profit or public college based on the name. Not anymore. Employers know what University of Phoenix represents, and to many the degrees are suspect, even if the students put a lot of work into getting them.
Updates to What's the value of a University of Phoenix degree?
First update: This post, and another post about Saturday Night Live's "University of Westfield" ad generated a lot of traffic and responses. However, I am disturbed by the appearance of what I believe to be a comment from an employee of the University of Phoenix's parent company, either ridiculing its student customers or making a strange attempt at astroturfing. See this comment and my follow-up and judge for yourself. Also, if you want to join the discussion here or on that page, that's fine, but I will call out any comment that comes from an official UOP corporate source, yet claims to be an ordinary customer or alumnus.
Second update: Frontline (a weekly documentary program on PBS) has a fascinating profile of for-profit education called College, Inc. It includes a lengthy examination of the University of Phoenix and its parent company, Apollo Group. You can read my review of the Frontline program and watch the video here.
Third update: On my blog entry about the SNL parody of the University of Phoenix, someone has posted a blistering review of the University of Phoenix MBA program. The author is someone who says he recently completed his UOP MBA.
Fourth update: I have taken an online math class for credit, and have this to say about the online education experience:
Even though it's not about the UOP online classes, it gives some insights into what the online study experience is like.
Fifth update: Another response to my separate blog post about the SNL University of Phoenix parody ("The University of Westfield") has drawn a critical comment that describes the UOP online experience and UOP grading.
Sixth update: Another comment, from someone in the AA/IT program: "My experience started rocky during the first 4 classes and improved substantially as the classes became more challenging." The reasons for the rocky start? "The initial quality of students appeared to be inadequate to maintain participation and attendance. I also had to drop one class within the first week due to concerns over the quality of education from the instructor. "
Seventh update: Another apparent attempt at astroturfing by the University of Phoenix, this time on a new post about the Frontline documentary about for-profit and online colleges who exploit veterans to get at their GI Bill benefits.
See also:
(Update: Since writing this post, I have launched a company which is dedicated to helping people understand complicated technologies and concepts. Besides creating online posts which address questions such as What Is Dropbox and What Is Google Drive, I have also published a series of guides under the In 30 Minutes brand.)
224 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 224 of 224I attended UOP for two years before transferring to UMASS Lowell. All of my classes transferred except one. The prices are much higher than other options and more state schools are offering online classes.
The niche that UOP fills is the busy student. Their online system is better than schools using blackboard, and they do make it really easy to enroll. Personally I wanted the 12 week classes as I am learning computer programming. I would tell people to look around for a more affordable options. I also plan on attending the Harvard Extension school if I can, for the MA Software Engineer program.
I am currently a UoP student, I will be finishing my education there June 2013. I know there has been a lot of speculation of this education facility, but most people who are criticizing it have not experienced an education at UoP. I know it is not a perfect education, but which is? the only cons I would consider worth mentioning are 1) no admissions exclusions. I believe if students who were not dedicated were not allowed to attend the experience would be much better. When I started my Upper division levels in my Bachelors degree in Psychology it was a dream come true of change. the Students were as dedicated as I was. The 2nd thing I would prefer is day time classes availability is everything. the third thing I would like to see change is Counselors that had better resources i always felt like getting answers from Phoenix counselors was a hard task. I have spent a lot of money and time on my education and I do feel knowledgeable but I believe this stigma that is happening over Phoenix will affect me finding a job in the work force. and that is unfortunate. I worked hard for my 3.8 gpa. I feel smart i dont feel stupid or cheated. I am 25 years old and I made mistakes before phoenix and I dont feel like getting my stepping stone degree would have been better gained at a CSU or state college. I Plan to continue my education and get a MS in Psychology. I will not be continuing at Phoenix purely because it means more to me than my bachelors did, not because anything Phoenix did to me
I received my MBA from UofP several years ago. I don't regret it. I already had a BA from BYU, so that gave me more credibility from employers and the MBA from UofP allowed me to sit for the CPA exams years later which I managed to pass within the first 18 months.
I agree I graduated from the university of phoenix in 2012 and would agree the classes were very Intensified. When going to this university myself have put fourth my time to get everything I wanted out of my university degree. Team work was key Who cares about the negative comments this university gets. Employers should look at our degree as accomplishments that we do have one and the education to back it. My marks are high as anyone else competing for that certain job in Information technology field. Some people in this field today cannot say have any credentials that give them what I have and accomplished but they have the job and I do not. Its sad to say a lot of them don't no nothing either.
I am in my 4th year of a business degree at UoP. I transferred with an associates there and have taken 8 classes so far. I have to say, the education is a complete joke. I have been receiveing a 4.0 gpa there despite barely knowing half of my classes. I feel trapped due to the time invested so I don't want to transfer, but I know in the back of my mind that this degree is of no value as there are many in my classes who are totally ignorant of the subject yet will still receive a passing grade. The education from the UoP is LESS challenging than what I had to do in middle school, not even up to my high school's standard.
I, from experience can say that the UOP is HORRIBLE! I was a student from 2010-2012 off and on because of my family growing and the time I could actually do work so it was in gaps. Every single instructor has the same feedback, just a name insert for the student. Some of the other students I had to interact with, and was giving feedback too were not "unintelligent" but I definitely was head and shoulders above their grammar and punctuation along with answers. And I am NOT a smart guy! I would get a call every so often from teh counselors, but those came more when I was out of classes rather than when I was in. I am stuck with $11k+ for classes I learned NOTHING in! If anyone here has any way to get back at the university such as a lawsuit, or a way to stop paying loans please let's chat. I think something needs to be done against the UOP and the way they decieve and lie to get you in, and the piss poor instruction that you receive. I was recently contacted by a rep last week and he asked me my opinion. I gave it to him and he had nothing to say besides things to try and get me back to my classes, it was like my insults to his university were of no concern.
Contact me if you have gripes as well
Ralphie Martinez ralphietinez@comcast.net
And please by all means, anyone here FOR the UOP can contact me so I can tell you where to shove it!
I have attended and graduated from UOPHX with a gpa of 3.56 for a B.S. in Business Management, SMU for a MEd with a 3.33 gpa and the University of Texas with an MEd in Ed Admin with a gpa of 3.88. In comparing the three experiences I can say the quality of education really depends on the quality and dedication of your professor or instructor. I took some awesome classes at UOPHX, SMU and UT and some not so great ones too. The only difference might have been in the quality of your cohort/classmates with UOPHX having a lower quality student vs SMU and UT. Other than that the degree and the education that you get depends solely on what you put into it. As for what you can accomplish with either degree, it depends on one's energy and drive.
I am a recent recipient of an associate's degree in psychology from UoP. Although I have never attended another college, I feel that I have learned an abundance of information, and I do not think the quality of their education is lacking in any way. Friends who attend traditional universities had a smaller and less intense workload for the same program, anyway. I had to work hard for my degree, but due to their reputation, I have to earn my bachelor's degree from another college. Human services degrees from UoP are not valid where I live, or I would stay. I did have some serious troubles with their policies as well, but then again, I have no clue what standard policies for institutions such as colleges are. I think the problem may be with UoP, and its not reaching certain standards when it comes to accreditation and reputation. I think that is something the University needs to work on to retain more students.
My comment part 1:
I get that I am super late to this conversation but I must comment anyway. For anyone wondering why I chose to read this article since I do not have, nor will I ever have, a degree from UoP, my answer to you is that my graduate research and current publications all focus on higher education; particularly on how in the eyes of students, the university experience has become a business transaction and the diploma, a ticket into the workforce. Whether we like it or not, the for-profit model has had a great influence on this phenomenon.
I grew up in Arizona and happen to know several people who have facilitated courses for the corporation or have purchased their degrees from UoP. I also know people who have designed said "courses." Here are some real-life, personal accounts that I can share with you:
My closest friend purchased her bachelor degree in some field of psychology from UoP. During the course of her journey to "graduation," I asked her what she thought of the coursework. Her comment to me was that "It is so easy, it is embarrassing," followed by a laugh. Months after she had finished her experience with UoP, we were having a casual conversation about psychology. I mentioned Sigmund Freud. She very seriously and innocently looked at me and asked, "Who is Sigmund Freud?" For those of you who don't know, he is known as 'The Father of Psychology.'
An acquaintance of mine has been awarded several contracts for designing courses for UoP. I found it interesting that she holds an "MBA" from UoP (quotations deliberate), yet she is designing courses for doctorate students in psychology. I am sorry, but in what way is a (supposed) master's level person, with an alleged educational background in business, qualified to design a doctoral course in psychology?
I know many people who work for the corporation as "course facilitators." They are basically warm bodies used for posting grades for students who take the previously designed courses. These are not professors. Please do not call them that. It is made known that they must award high grades to the vast majority of students in order to keep student loan funds funneling into the company. If not, they are at risk for termination. If "students" complain to administration about a grade, the grade is oftentimes changed by higher-ups without facilitator knowledge or approval.
I have a friend who is a recruiter for UoP. She told me that in order to live with herself, she had to quit her job because what she was required to do to bring customers to this company was so unethical, she could not sleep at night.
To be continued...
Aaron above said that he is taking the MBA program at UofP and it's 'fully accredited'. That is not accurate. Fully accredited is not an accurate way of describing the level or type of accreditation that any university has. UofP is regionally accredited, yes. But their business programs, including the MBA, but all business degrees at all levels are not AACSB. AACSB is the gold standard for business schools. It's not horrible to get a degree from a school that doesn't have this but not having it, especially at the master level does hurt a bit. It also makes the 'fully accredited' remark useless. No school is 'fully accredited' since such a thing doesn't exist.
RE: AACSB
Stupid comment. More colleges are NOT AACSB than are. It is tough to get. Some WELL RESPECTED business schools in the U.S. do not have AACSB. IMHO...it is an elite club created by the rich schools such as Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, UCLA, etc....to hold over their competition. It means NOTHING special.
I have read a few of the comments about UOP and being a future student starting on 03/17/2015, I am looking forward to becoming a student. I look at other comments on here and I feel that colleges whether it's traditional or online, there are a lot of opportunities out there, the possibilities are endless, you have to stay connected with others and network!!
I've been with UoP since 11/2003. (Today is 4/22/2015) I've completed a BSB/M, a MIS, and now my DM in Organizational Leadership. If you have the motivation to complete the coursework without face-to-face interaction, you can accomplish your degree plans. I didn't have the option of other schools. We're a military family and moved every 2-3 years. Here's my 2 cents:
PROFESSORS:
For those who are discrediting UoP, I can say this (after almost 12 years): Some professors are going to inspire you to become a better person, to work hard, to find your balance. Other professors are going to make you want to run, screaming into traffic. I'm sure you realize that I have just described EVERY school...from Pre-K to graduate school. We all have personality differences. Some of us have a varying opinion of what professionalism really is.
STUDENTS:
There are going to be other students who are not as dedicated as you, and you will come to realize that they DIRECTLY affect your grade (as UoP requires "learning teams"). This fact alone would deter me from ever attending another school that requires you to earn a grade as a group. Your dedication and integrity are no match for slackers when you are graded as a group. It was RARE to find other students who cared about their education as much as I'd hoped. I was constantly CONSTANTLY staying up late to edit the "team" work so that we could present a unified (and somewhat coherent) assignment in hopes that we would receive a grade that wouldn't destroy my GPA. In the beginning, you are still in classes with others who are not so sure they're interested in earning a degree/aren't dedicated enough to attend classes.
ONLINE OR ON-GROUND:
Don't discount a school because they offer online classes. (Even University of Texas does it!) Consider this: If there were a school out there that DIDN'T offer online classes, most people would wonder why they are technologically behind and then slam them too!
RESIDENCY:
Years 1, 2, and 3 in residency, I met some of the most amazing professors I could have imagined. Year 1 was in Atlanta, Year 2 was in Reston, and Year 3 was in Nashville. (3 locations, all different faculty members) I will NEVER forget the experience and the people. Many of them are lifelong friends and I couldn't imagine this journey without them.
I don't recommend judging a book by the cover and I also don't recommend UoP-due to the learning teams. (Until you've been faced with this "requirement" you have no idea how nerve-wracking it WILL be.)
If I had to judge by the professors, I'd say go for it. I had only a handful of rotten professors in almost 12 years. That's pretty awesome, based on what I've seen of other universities.
Let's begin my caring for each other, not being so judgmental, and honoring those (especially our troops) who have no choice but to pursue an education wherever they possibly can. Meet the people...see for yourself if you think they are worth your time. I promise you, there are good/bad apples no matter where you look...stop seeking out the bad... -Cassi
Hi, I have been attending UoP since August and I think I have gained more learning through reading and writing then I ever got out of a traditional setting. I am working on my human services degree to become a social worker. I work with special ed kids and with what I have received from my readings I can implement over eighty percent of what I have already learned in the short time I have been attending. Everyone has a right to an opinion and employers have a right to accept or deny.. that's just how the world works people.
Some of these comments are so strange with odd typos like they were written by a bot. Of all the comments I read only a few seemed to have actually attended UOP. Granted, this blog post is really old and maybe UOP has changed a lot over the years.
I received my BS/IT-ISS from UOP in 2014. I was a transfer student from a traditional university. I have worked in IT for over 6 years and already had 3 vendor neutral (CompTIA) certifications when I started at UOP. After graduating I was promoted and given a 10k salary increase. Overall, I am very happy with my degree and UOP. I think like another poster mentioned it can be hit or miss with the facilitators just like at any college. The learning Teams are the most negative aspect of UOP. Unfortunately, the teams are like project teams in real life..one person is doing all the work :D
Next week I start the MIS program at UOP.
It is discriminatory to judge a person based on the school they received s degree from. There are people that have earned a degree that can solve problems and work on levels above someone who has earmed a degree. I know you were trying to make a point about UOP but you can lose a quality worker based off their school. the qualifications they possess and how well they present themselves during the interview is what youshould base your decision on; not where a degree was obtained.
UOP allows anyone to register for courses. So they get a mix of people who can actually do the work and others who are not academically inclined. They don't want to be there and will do the minimum required work to get by. Most have no intention of completing more than one or two courses. If UOP had higher entry level standards it would be a better school. I learned a lot and I do work for a fortune 500 company as a senior exempt level employee. I use what I learned at the UOP on a daily basis. As in all cases, the degree (no matter what school it's from) is not the determining factor for achieving a success in a business environment. It takes natural ability, drive, and determination to get ahead these days. A degree just gets you in the front door, but your performance can send you packing regardless of where you earned your degree. I see people from traditional schools fail in real world scenarios all the time. Also, some people are good at studying and taking tests, but can't retain the information they've learned or apply it to real world experiences. Only a small percentage of college graduates will achieve career and financial success in today's fast pace environment.
Hello everyone,
I have my BSB/ACC from the University of Phoenix. I will also be finishing my MBA/ACC within 4 weeks. Overall, I have spent the last 4 years of my life working and attending school online. I have found that the school is definitely challenging with requirements in participation and team work on a weekly basis. My education has been well received and I actually received a promotion at work as a result of better education. As with any educational endeavor, the quality of education can be increased substantially by the student's willingness to study what the university requires in the curriculum. The tests are challenging and plagiarism will get you kicked out of school in a hurry with a zero tolerance policy. I am a veteran that has used my VA benefits to acquire a quality education. I can honestly say that the education I've received will help me in my life. There has been circumstances that I knew more about a particular subject than other graduates at different institutions. For example, subjects like ethics, morals, Sarbanes Oxley, and even marketing has helped me in my current position. So, look at the University of Phoenix yourself and make your own decisions, because some people can't deal with the pressures of online education, because you definitely need to be self motivated.
I graduated with an MBA from UOP in 2012. I earned a final GPA of 3.96/4.00 and graduated with honors. I am a member of Delta Mu Delta, which is an international honor society in Business. It was started by Yale many decades ago. I retired as a senior manager from Raytheon Company, a Fortune 100 corporation. I also worked for SRI, formerly Stanford University Research Institute. You know professor, the inventor of the computer "mouse". While I received my Undergraduate degree from the university of Redlands in California, my MBA from UOP gave me the tools to move into a senior leadership role and to achieve significant accomplishments in process improvements, culminating in net benefits to my emoployer of over $100M. With Bonuses and Options I earned >$200K per year my last 10 years. Thank you, UOP. I owe you my career.
PS: Anonymous-Your use of the word ebarrassing, your spelling, needs an 'm'after the letter 'e', e.g. "embarrassing, Webster's spelling.
Anonymous Too!
I concur. I received my bachelor in business in 2008. I got out of it what I put into it. My degree was responsible for my promotion to the position of Transportation Manager II at the Chicago Transit Authority. I'm sure that my experience played a role. During my interview for the promotion l was told that much degree help them with their final. Decision. As a result my retirement package increased substantially. The bottom line for me is that the facilitators and the curriculum provided me with what I needed to allow me to get in there and extract the education I needed to fulfill my objectives.
I also have an accounting degree from UOP. I could not get a job in accounting if I agreed to work for free. It was a huge mistake and waste of time. I am 42 years old and still going to school but I definitely learned a big life lesson. I am skeptical of any online education not because it is poor education but it is perceived by employers to be worthless. Since they are the ones that decide if you get a opportunity or not, it is worthless.If your looking for personal enrichment or don't have anything better to do than spending hours studying it is a waste of time. I am not really upset about the money or lack of job opportunities but I am upset that I will never get back those hundreds of hours that I could have been spending with my husband and children.
I hope anyone that is currently attended will reconsider their decision. There are other options, UOP is a running joke. I am embarrassed to tell people that I have a degree from this institution.
I also have an accounting degree from UOP. I could not get a job in accounting if I agreed to work for free. It was a huge mistake and waste of time. I am 42 years old and still going to school but I definitely learned a big life lesson. I am skeptical of any online education not because it is poor education but it is perceived by employers to be worthless. Since they are the ones that decide if you get a opportunity or not, it is worthless.If your looking for personal enrichment or don't have anything better to do than spending hours studying it is a waste of time. I am not really upset about the money or lack of job opportunities but I am upset that I will never get back those hundreds of hours that I could have been spending with my husband and children.
I hope anyone that is currently attended will reconsider their decision. There are other options, UOP is a running joke. I am embarrassed to tell people that I have a degree from this institution.
Having earned a bachelor's in Business Admin and a Masters in Accountancy, I can say I do question How a degree from UOP is viewed specifically in the more technical fields. When I got my MSA, it was near impossible to even get an entry level job on accounting. There are other factors, so I'm not going to attribute that all to the institution. In accounting, software experience and skills are at least as important as formal education. Not being able to complete an internship as a non traditional student, and not having experience with SAP, Great Plains, etc, and having intermediate Excel skills pretty much killed any job chances. The school does not provide opportunity to build skills like that for the most part and does not have robust relationships with employers. And the reality is no one wants to take a chance in the middle aged guy without direct sw experience and a UOP degree when they can hire the 21 year old who did an internship at a big Corp, big 4, or local CPA firm. I think firbgeneral business / management or promotion within a degree from here is fine. But in my area of study it was nearly useless in the marketplace.
Dang, if you're having second thoughts about UOP, look no further than the comments section here. All of these UOP people and not a single one can use proper punctuation, spelling, or grammar. One of them even has the gall to correct someone else's typo while he/she has a post full of errors! I bet you anything the majority of these "stories" about great success with a UOP degree are fake and written by UOP staff!
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